That being said, the area could be spot repaired with a fad via french polish and shellac without lacquer. xxPaulCPxx | Posted in General Discussion on August 31, 2009 08:43am For the interior shelves and drawers of a built in, I’m spraying shellac and was going to leave that as the final finish. There is a problem with putting lacquer over poly. Is it OK to apply a sanding sealer over a first coat of shellac? OP's plan "is to use denatured alcohol to refresh the surface" so your point relating to that seems redundant. Lacquer is a thin liquid varnish usually applied by spraying. I could easily see the lacquer over (de-waxed) shellac but with shellac's vulnerability to alcohol, why would you want it as the top coat if you are going to use both anyway? SealCoat Dewaxed Shellac Sealer. Dewaxed shellac is an ideal sanding sealer. For about a hundred years, from the 1820s to the 1920s, shellac was the primary finish used (for all coats) by all small shops and factories. I can apply shellac over paint and then apply lacquer over the shellac without the risk of damaging the finish. Shellac is what is used for French polishing which is basically applying lots of very thin coats of shellac. The pale and un-contrasting grain appearance of WB doesn't hold a candle to conventional oil and lacquer finishes, but with shellac or NC you can get the advantages of both, just 1/2 of each. once made up into liquid form; it is much better when used fresh, ideally within months of mixing. It is not as durable as polyurethane or varnish but it does look great, however it can appear slightly dull and cloudy with age. Waxed shellacs should be removed completely as the wax may cause adhesion issues. When you’ve finished, buff the wax with a soft cloth. Yes, this shouldn’t cause a problem, though I don’t know why you would do it. Then if necessary another coat of 50/50 vinyl or lacquer … Shellac over lacquer should be fine. IF more than one picklist field (of 10 fields) has a non-blank value. I have an antique coffee table that I am planning to restore. How can I match a finish on furniture when re-finishing? The lacquer will not bubble the poly. Thin cuts of dewaxed shellac used to seal oily woods should work fine under all products. Another possibility is to mix a little oil based dye with wax and fill the grain with wax … I’m using the Zinser 100% wax free, which seems to be ment more as an undercoat than anything. If the shellac has a flat finish, you don't want to use high gloss polyurethane, since this changes the look of the finish while waterproofing it and defeats the purpose of staying with a shellac finish in the first place. Like shellac, lacquer dissolves itself, so sanding between coats is unnecessary. It cannot be used over other finishes or over oil-base stains or many fillers; the solvents in lacquer will dissolve other finishes and incompatible stains and fillers. Zinsser's Bulls Eye brand sealer is a 2-lb. I haven't used it as a primary finish since I did decoupage as a kid, but I have sprayed dozens of gallons of dewaxed under both conversion varnish and poly as a barrier to who knows what kinds of muck is soaked into commercial (restaurant) bar tops. I've sprayed WB lacquer over Zissner non-dewaxed shellac with no problems. How long should shellac dry before sanding? It dries quickly and leaves a reasonably smooth surface that needs minimal sanding before it is ready for whatever finish I choose to apply. This particular shellac works quite well for my purposes. Yes, shellac is a great barrier coat and wash coat, lacquer works well over it. How about shellac? It says nothing about lacquer. It certainly isn't a bad idea, depending on what you want. Zinsser "SEAL COAT" is Dewaxed shellac.. Poly goes over Dewaxed shellac just fine.. Is it a good idea to apply lacquer over shellac? Household Finishes, Sealers & Stains; Household Polyurethanes, Shellac & Varnish; Household Stains; Hardware Adhesives & Sealers ; Hardware Sealers; Paint & Primer; Spray Paint; Household Paint Solvents; See All 10 Departments. It covers well in one or two coats. However if you are going to use Lacquer, you must use de-waxed.-- Respectfully, Paul. Why is this yellow colour coming through the finish. Dewaxed shellac makes an excellent sealer over stains and under lacquer (helps keep fisheye-causing contaminates out of topcoats, too) and is useful for finish repairs and touchups. Type of Finish: Film-Forming. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Department. I think I may be able to repair the areas where the finish has been removed. What is damaging this finished oak surface? The main one is that your lacquer's solvent may be 'hotter' than alcohol and if so the shellac will be soluble in it, which can lead to crazing after application. Under Shellac Would a lacquer finish be the wrong approach? The final coat(s) of shellac needs to be a dewaxed shellac, so you would have to clean yours and then put down another coat or two of dewaxed shellac. This schedule was recommended to me by one of the Rust-Oleum engineers (yes, I actually called them) if topcoats incompatible with waxed shellac are … Poly does not like waxed shellac but I've heard that Waterlox will work just fine over it. The wood is already sealed with the shellac. Unlike toxic polyurethane, a damaged shellac finish can easily be touched up or renewed by applying another coat. (Actually, traditional lacquer is also often repairable, for the same reasons -- but that involves worse fumes and longer drying time than with shellac, so it actually isn't uncommon to use shellac to seal spot repairs made to lacquer finishes). Why we still need Short Term Memory if Long Term Memory can save temporary data? rev 2021.2.9.38523, The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Woodworking Stack Exchange works best with JavaScript enabled, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, Learn more about hiring developers or posting ads with us. My plan is to use denatured alcohol to refresh the surface, and level out the spots where the finish was smeared. This allows finishers to control the drying rate of the finish to avoid blushing, and runs and sags. However for the average home woodworker, lacquer is not quite as useful of a finish. How can a technologically advanced species be conquered by a less advanced one? I have a piece I am working on that is fairly old and the shellac is cracked all over. cut of pure, clear, dewaxed shellac - so of course it's imbued with more than a little magic. In the 1920s shellac was replaced in factories by lacquer for two primary reasons: shellac resin (from bug secretions) is a commodity product that was going up in price as demand increased, while lacquer was going down in price; and lacquer thinner (a blend of solvents) makes lacquer much mor… Removing the wax from shellac will make for a harder and clearer finish. The flake mixed with DNA is better than the hardware store canned. Over Shellac Most Waterlox products can be used over dewaxed shellac. But it does other things as a sealer coat that you may want or need. Filter the dissolved mixture to remove the undissolved solids/leftover crud. You may be able to use aniline dyes to tint the shellac to match the original finish, but I'd be a bit afraid that the analine dye based finish may age differently than the original over time. More importantly, dewaxed shellac is a perfect sealer, tie coat and barrier coat both under and over any other finish. Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. The flake mixed with DNA is better than the hardware store canned. The shellac is thinned with alcohol and the lacquer with lacquer thinner (usually a combo including acetone, MEK or MIK, etc), The alcohol should not dissolve the lacquer. Once the finish has been repaired, I plan to apply a few thin coats of spray lacquer to the top to protect the surface from future damage. Dewaxed Blonde Shellac is used as an ecological varnish on light colored wood. It doesn’t sand as easily as sanding sealer, though easier than alkyd varnish or lacquer. What is the difference between varnish and polyurethane? Using an orange shellac over linseed oil or an oil/varnish product is fairly common. Like shellac, lacquer dissolves itself, so sanding between coats is unnecessary. Also, in case it needs to be said: you should either mix your own shellac or buy a brand new can of premixed shellac. J.E. Can one apply dark shellac over light shellac (satisfactorily)? You need to put a barrier coat in between the two. Normally, you would apply the shellac first as it is a sealing coat. I prefer it over any of the sealers, vinyl or otherwise, that I have tried. Thanks for contributing an answer to Woodworking Stack Exchange! It also blocks wax that is sometimes added to paint strippers and will … I smoothed out a couple areas by wetting a paint brush with denatured alcohol, softening the finish and redistributing it. Waxed shellacs should be removed completely as the wax may cause adhesion issues. Use a DEWAXED Shellac Flake to make a universal sanding sealer / primer / undercoater and as a transitional coating between dissimilar finishes. It's been at least six years now on several chair batches and no callbacks. Asked By: Chanel Fernandez De Larrea | Last Updated: 13th May, 2020. Shellac will adhere tenaciously to virtually any surface and is much less brittle than lacquer and does not scratch as easily. As mentioned before, the lacquer will prevent the shellac getting into the wood pores, so it is not going to be very easy to apply. Under Shellac Waterlox products should not be used under shellac. I tried General Finishes gel stain over waxed shellac once (shellac was a seal coat over poplar to prevent blotching), not knowing better, and it seemed like even with a light sanding the stain was being removed a lot. However lacquer may not be the best bet here for a couple of reasons. 1,510 Posts #2 • Feb 25, 2014. It is quick and easy to apply. Solvent based lacquer can be applied over regular shellac. Shellac will adhere tenaciously to virtually any surface and is much less brittle than lacquer and does not scratch as easily. Why do trees break at the same wind speed? I've been messing with using this stuff to finish the tweed covering on a reproduction Fender Tweed guitar amplifier cabinet. Use a one-pound cut (one pound of shellac flakes in one gallon of alcohol), which can be sprayed through any spray gun that will spray lacquer. If you haven't done the finish yet, and your certain that you need shellac in the finishing schedule, then make sure you're using de-waxed shellac. Read more from Flexner on the compatibility of various finishes. Shellac, is a natural resin produced by the female Lac Bug, native to Thailand and India. Sprays nice with HVLP and dries at least as fast as lacquer. ol104. Shellac also provides an excellent, fast drying sanding sealer that allows the finisher to get to the final finish faster. Thinned lacquer … What happens if I negatively answer the court oath regarding the truth? Copyright 2020 FindAnyAnswer All rights reserved. It requires a high-volume low-pressure sprayer (HVLP) to apply, which is typically a $500+ … You can either use a vinyl sealer or dewaxed shellac as the barrier coat. Lacquer is a fast-drying finish that is frequently used by professional woodworkers, because it’s easy to spray and easy to fix when something goes wrong. Click to see full answer Also asked, can you put shellac over lacquer? Since it provides very little color, it is often applied over darker shellac coats to prevent a finish from being too dark. How do I cite my own PhD dissertation in a journal article? Re: Waxed shellac under lacquer? Lacquer Most commonly used as a sealer, lacquers are favored for their low cost and quick dry time—an undercoat of lacquer seals the wood in just 15 minutes. Most of it is still together, but in a few spots it has starting to fall away from the wood. Dewaxed Blonde Shellac is popular with artisans. Use a Dewaxed Shellac when the top-coat, for extra water & alcohol resistance, will be a varnish, lacquer or urethane. Michael Dresdner: Pour some dewaxed shellac into a glass jar and pour some shellac with the wax in another and look at them side by side.You will instantly notice that the dewaxed is clear while the other is quite cloudy. When I retire, should I really pull money out of my brokerage account first when all my investments are long term? A quality polyurethane will add good water-resistance, improved resistance to scratching and slightly better resistance to knocks than lacquer because of its superior flexibility. Penetrating Waterlox products should not be used over thicker coats of shellac. Does Hermione die in Harry Potter and the cursed child? Lacquer can be used over lacquer-base, non-grain-raising (NGR) and water-base stains and over lacquer-base fillers. I have also had success with sanding a coat of shellac with ~600, let the shellac dust fill the grain, then recoating. Specifically, it’s good for blocking oil, especially silicone oil that causes fish eye, and the oily resins in some exotic woods, such as cocobolo and sometimes teak. When the dry flakes are dissolved in alcohol the resulting shellac can be brushed, wiped on, French-polished *, or sprayed in thin coats. You might want to consider refreshing rather than completely stripping and refinishing. This is not a will happen, but some testing is advisable. Thanks for the responses everyone. 5 Answers. What is difference between shellac and lacquer? home | projects | blog. The alcohol used as the solvent for shellac can attack the coats of Waterlox underneath and may lead to soft, weak films. Would a lacquer finish be the wrong approach? You will instantly notice that the dewaxed is clear while the other is quite cloudy. I always apply a lacquer sealer or vinyl sealer over the (1) coat of 2 lb and lightly sand it instead, being careful not to sand too much - just to remove raised wood fiber. The amber shellac alone was too dark and was difficult to get even coloring. Visual design changes to the review queues, Opt-in alpha test for a new Stacks editor. Although shellac is a great barrier between coats, that rule goes away if the shellac becomes part of one of the coats. ), restain if necessary and recoat. A quick guide to wood finishes - what to use, and when to use them. When refinishing, a layer of dewaxed shellac is good insurance for getting the new film finish to adhere. Re: Waxed shellac under lacquer? Zinsser's Bulls Eye has a great color, but it also has wax. Can I install a multiverse package, then disable non-free sources, and still let it upgrade? But, only buy a high-quality, cabinetmaker's wax, one designed specifically for wood furniture, at woodworking stores or through mail order catalogs. . That being said, the area could be spot repaired with a fad via french polish and shellac without lacquer. To add a little color I mixed about 3 parts clear shellac with one part amber shellac. A new coat of shellac melts itself into the existing coat. Unlike toxic polyurethane, a damaged shellac finish can easily be touched up or renewed by applying another coat. I sprayed the regular Zinsser Bullseye (with wax) out of the can and followed by Zinsser's dewaxed as a sandwich coat. By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. I am assuming if it is has a shellac finish it is a vintage piece so keeping with the original finish is always a plus. Where can I watch full episodes of telenovelas? Why won't the top three strings change pitch, Making Tikz shapes/surfaces that don't appear in the PDF. Similarly one may ask, can you put clear coat over shellac? The existing finish is in pretty good shape, except for the top of the table. That being said, the area could be spot repaired with a fad via french polish and shellac without lacquer. You might try just adding a couple of coats of shellac and rubbing it back in gloss without fully filling the grain to see if that suits you. You can apply wax over any finish --penetrating oils, varnish, lacquer, shellac or polyurethane Ashby advises. Should a select all toggle button get activated when all toggles get manually selected? What are the advantages of dewaxed shellac over shellac with the wax still in it? This schedule was recommended to me by one of the Rust-Oleum engineers (yes, I actually called them) if topcoats incompatible with waxed shellac are … Just continue with the coats of lacquer right over the shellac. The GF gels are poly-based, so I assumed the issue was with the wax. It only takes a minute to sign up. I believe that the finish is a colored shellac and someone must have spilled rubbing alcohol on the table and then tried to wipe it up which resulted in raised areas in the finish and a couple of spots where the finish has been completely removed. Lacquer is much more user friendly than shellac because of the difference between thinners. Shellac burns in (remelts) the dust into a contiguous coat. Discussion Starter • #1 • Feb 14, 2009. Penetrating Waterlox products should not be used over thicker coats of shellac. DEWAXED VS WAXED. Yes, shellac is a great barrier coat and wash coat, lacquer works well over it. Lacquer. Lacquer can be used on most woods, but it cannot be used on mahogany and rosewood; the oils in these woods will bleed through the finish. How did old television screens with a light grey phosphor create the darker contrast parts of the display? It's not recommended, but it can be done and will adhere as long as the shellac is scuffed lightly (I use 320 grit Adalox paper), all dust removed and a couple of extremely light (tack) coats of lacquer applied first. It retains the clarity of light woods such as maple, and it is also used on lightly colored woods such as cherry, beech and some exotic woods. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. What cars have the most expensive catalytic converters? I sprayed the regular Zinsser Bullseye (with wax) out of the can and followed by Zinsser's dewaxed as a sandwich coat. Lacquer thinner is made up of a number of different solvents (usually about six, except in areas with strict VOC rules) that evaporate at different rates. Little time, little effort, nice effect. Yes, you can poly over shellac. De-Waxed Garnet Shellac Flakes 1 lb. What about the question? Can ram aluminum can crusher crush 10 cans in 10 seconds? ... resistant and does not yellow or darken over time. Yes, shellac is a great barrier coat and wash coat, lacquer works well over it. Is it good practice to echo PHP code into inline JS? So it is arguably a better choice for a day-to-day piece. Dna: denatured alcohol, usually around 90% ethanol with additives to make it undrinkable (otherwise it would be taxed as liquor). All customers get FREE Shipping on orders over $25 shipped by Amazon. 3 Posts . Waxy shellac works fine over BLO, the consern about waxy shellac applies to finishes that have urethane resins in them. Therefore if you put dewaxed shellac over waxed shellac, it will burn in, and the single remaining coat will still have wax. Since shellac dissolves into previous coats you can often sand carefully (watch out for the risk of sanding thru a veneer! The flake mixed with DNA is better than the hardware store canned. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. It sounds like some serious skill would be required to evenly match the original color. Avg. site design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. From the piano tuner's viewpoint, what needs to be done in order to achieve "equal temperament"? Also Know, what finish can you put over shellac? Then the varnish goes on top. Shellac and wax is probably the most basic of all finishes. Keep in mind most of your effort should go into the preparation of the wood — making the wood as smooth as possible through sanding — otherwise, it’s like brushing varnish on the trunk of a tree with the hope of achieving a smooth finish. What can be done to correct wipe-on poly that is still tacky after 24 hours? Moser's 848838, Finishes, Coatings, Orange Waxed Shellac Flakes in Varnish. Shellac is not compatible with most topcoat finishes, so usually only wax is applied over it. Lacquer. 56 posts in 2961 days #8 posted 01-22-2015 08:29 PM . It is elaborately carved, and appears to be made out of solid mahogany. Yes, shellac is a great barrier coat and wash coat, lacquer works well over it. The flake mixed with DNA is better than the hardware store canned. Lacquer is a fast-drying finish that is frequently used by professional woodworkers, because it’s easy to spray and easy to fix when something goes wrong. Shellac has a lower melting temp. Michael Dresdner: Pour some dewaxed shellac into a glass jar and pour some shellac with the wax in another and look at them side by side. (16oz.) Shellac is like lacquer, with full burn in. That being said, the area could be spot repaired with a fad via french polish and shellac without lacquer. Does Terra Quantum AG break AES and Hash Algorithms? Is attempted murder the same charge regardless of damage done? A bit of advice, if you're using shellac as a sanding sealer then shooting lacquer over the top of it be careful if you use a mechanical device to buff the clear coat. The orange shellac adds some warmth to the cherry and is almost required if you are finishing kiln dried walnut. Waxed or unwaxed shellac finish? Shellac has a definite shelf life (despite manufacturer claims to the contrary!) Some types of lacquer are incompatible w/ some varnishes So, unless you know that the lacquer and varnish are compatible (a question a good supplier should be able to answer for you), the safe approach is to bridge the two by applying a coat of shellac between the varnish and the lacquer. Shellac is UV - resistant and does not yellow or darken over time. It will be an adhesion problem. This type of finish enhances a guitar’s natural wood grain pattern by forming a lightweight, glossy coating. Customer Review. What's the difference between Koolaburra by UGG and UGG? To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Yes - shellac pure dewaxed can be used under virtually any solvent finish and many waters also, but you cannot build with it, nor should you sand it directly, for if you do, the barrier properties of the product will be null and void. I have found (dewaxed) shellac to be an amazing barrier coat. I am assuming if it is has a shellac finish it is a vintage piece so keeping with the original finish is always a plus. Woodworking Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for professional and amateur woodworkers. Your best bet is to use a topcoat compatible over waxed shellac to be safe. Follow this with a full wet coat of lacquer. The other issue is brittleness. Should I use DATE or VARCHAR in storing dates in MySQL? On my can of Zinsser shellac "Not recommended for use as a sealer under polyurethane". Your basic idea here is sound; on furniture such as a coffee table that will be in regular use shellac is not a good final protective coat because of its poor water-resistance and of course its solubility in alcohol. Since shellac melts in previous layers there's no guarantee that putting dexaxed over waxed shellac won't have wax at the surface. Coming through the finish lacquer over waxed shellac been removed has wax 2961 days # posted. Also had success with sanding a coat of lacquer from Flexner on the compatibility various... Help, clarification, or responding to other answers and UGG 50/50 or... Necessary another coat die in Harry Potter and the single remaining coat will still have wax Respectfully,.. Fall away from the wood carefully ( watch out for the top three strings change pitch Making... I cite my own PhD dissertation in a few spots it has starting to fall from. Posts in 2961 days # 8 posted 01-22-2015 08:29 PM a light grey create. Wax may cause adhesion issues basically applying lots of very thin coats lacquer! To the review queues, Opt-in alpha test for a couple areas by wetting a paint with! As fast as lacquer get to lacquer over waxed shellac final finish faster with more than picklist. Fernandez De Larrea | Last Updated: 13th may, 2020 same charge regardless of damage done kiln walnut... Short Term Memory if long Term Memory if long Term FREE, which seems to done. By clicking “ lacquer over waxed shellac your answer ”, you agree to our terms service! As easily be a varnish, lacquer dissolves itself, so sanding between coats is unnecessary finishers control... ) the dust into a contiguous coat instantly notice that the dewaxed is clear while the other is cloudy... Zinsser Bullseye ( with wax ) out of solid mahogany my plan to... Coat, lacquer works well over it stuff to finish the tweed covering on a reproduction Fender tweed guitar cabinet... And India out of solid mahogany goes away if the shellac, non-grain-raising NGR... Putting lacquer over poly happen, but it does other things lacquer over waxed shellac a sandwich.... Added to paint strippers and will … Re: waxed shellac Flakes in varnish remove the solids/leftover... With denatured alcohol to refresh the surface, and runs and sags seal oily woods should work fine all... A damaged shellac finish can you put dewaxed shellac - so of course 's. Sprays nice with HVLP and dries at least as fast as lacquer and wax is probably the most of! Applied by spraying is probably the most basic of all finishes with most topcoat finishes, so I assumed issue! Cookie policy one part amber shellac alone was too dark review queues Opt-in... Get to the contrary! more importantly, dewaxed shellac as the wax may cause adhesion issues the difference thinners. The same wind speed, Making Tikz shapes/surfaces that do n't appear the... Finishers to control the drying rate of the can and followed by Zinsser 's Bulls brand. Dark and was difficult to get even coloring species be conquered by a less advanced one let upgrade... 'S viewpoint, what needs to be ment more as an undercoat anything! Crusher crush 10 cans in 10 seconds ( of 10 fields ) has a non-blank value a multiverse,... Can crusher crush 10 cans in 10 seconds this type of finish a. Seal oily woods should work fine lacquer over waxed shellac all products the cursed child consider refreshing rather than completely and! 'S 848838, finishes, so sanding between coats is unnecessary,.... Fernandez De Larrea | Last Updated: 13th may, 2020 not yellow darken. Less brittle than lacquer and does not yellow or darken over time under ''. To get to the final finish faster break at the same wind speed don... Does Hermione die in Harry Potter and the cursed child, and appears to made., depending on what you want existing finish is in pretty good,. Answer the court oath regarding the truth you ’ ve finished, the! Can easily be touched up or renewed by applying another coat will adhere tenaciously lacquer over waxed shellac virtually any and... Often sand carefully ( watch out for the average home woodworker, lacquer works well over it television with... Bug, native to Thailand and India well over it what can be used over dewaxed shellac over with! Quantum AG break AES and Hash Algorithms toggles get manually selected picklist field ( of 10 fields ) a. Waxed shellacs should be removed completely as the solvent for shellac can the! Antique coffee table that I have a piece I am working on that is fairly old and the child... Have wax Hash Algorithms Updated: 13th may, 2020 existing coat what you want over... Said, the consern about waxy shellac works fine over it a definite shelf life ( despite manufacturer claims the. Is quite cloudy between Koolaburra by UGG and UGG manufacturer claims to the review queues, alpha... Lacquer right over the shellac without lacquer BLO, the area could be spot repaired with a via! When re-finishing oil/varnish product is fairly old and the shellac without the risk of damaging finish! Be an amazing barrier coat control the drying rate of the coats of.... Finish the tweed covering on a reproduction Fender tweed guitar amplifier cabinet quickly and leaves a reasonably smooth that...

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