I said Google, not the entire Tech Economy - specifically because OP was talking about Google's TC, not the entire tech economy which doesn't pay the same TC. Observed that I am getting paid relatively way less as a Product Manager in comparison to software engineers on the same level. How to Transition from Software Engineer to Product Manager, A Less Linear Approach to CIRCLES for Product Design Questions, Talk to customers and analyze data to identify user needs, Manage a launch process, evaluate product success, and respond to feedback, Design and implement technical solutions to problems, Adopt best practices and processes for an engineering team, Mentor other engineers through code reviews and design critiques, youre interested in answering the what and why around shipping product, you have a desire to learn how to make product decisions and help a team execute on it effectively, you are ok with spending your time aligning people and influencing others to get work done, youd prefer to build a breadth of skills, more-so than deep technical expertise, youre interested in answering the how around shipping product, you really enjoy programming and want to write code, youre primarily looking to develop your technical skill set, you prefer to be more independent in terms of work, at least earlier in your career. How to figure out what works best for you . Unfortunately, I've been having difficulty getting calls for interviews by applying directly to positions, and as I am on an H-1B visa, I only have 60 days to find a new job. In Tech, the $300K TC is certainly achievable and isn't as rare as people think. Depends on market conditions. Aha! And many people take it even though they'll be raped and thrown out of the window in ~2 year for about the same amount of money they'd be making, whereas they could just coast and push back at Big4 and reach Senior Manager level nonetheless. I have strong technical background in electronics but not in the medical field Thanks, I am interviewing for a Product Manager Generalist role at Facebook. would love to connect with PM folks waiting to join Meta. Most PMs (Product Managers) are highly replaceable cos they perform a fungivle combination of roles of a Program Manager, Secretary, and Project manager taking inputs from engineering leaders, partners and stakeholders. Can anyone please refer me? Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. I'm in IB and there is so much copium going around this thread. I work in a startup. Box. Tech people in large, cannot, and will not be able to grow a business - they typically just know how to code a program. I have experience with building brand new products as well as supporting existing products with ~ 500 active users. Have deep empathy and communicate with customers, drive long term strategic impact with stakeholders so basically the PM adds value by knowing ho, Can someone who got into Amazon recently as PM-T L5 share their offer? Open communication is necessary for them to assess the feasibility of new product requirements, evaluate the progress of epics and features, and review code. A product manager is the person who identifies the customer need and the larger business objectives that a product or feature will fulfill, articulates what success looks like for a product, and rallies a team to turn that vision into a reality. I am not hating on the role; It's just not my cup of tea. You do not want to work with an engineering manager who exists on an island keeping the details of what their team is building out of view. Product, Go to company page Get a coach-supported comprehensive plan to outperform at your new job. A software engineer is involved in the implementation. Qui velit quos dolorum velit ut consequatur mollitia. I'm currently an L61 PM at Microsoft. And despite having good intentions, you get in each other's way. 2) Are we going to pretend that the only truly great companies that were built were tech companies? Choosing Between Product Management vs Software Engineering. Doesn't make me an expert, but I figured I'd chime in. Product, Go to company page I just found a PM position under marketing on Apple career website. Product management can be distilled down into two tasks: Ensuring that the right feature / product is being built for your users, and. Goldman Sachs, Go to company page Product Manager vs Software engineer salary. You are ultimately accountable for the product's success or failure. Software Developer Skills. Is this true? This tension is typical of an organization that has a murky understanding of what product managers do. . Increase your offer with our expert negotiators. There is no such path in Tech (unicorn startup odds suck). Ummwhat? Not enough SWEs. I am trying to get a Product Manager position and was not able to suceed in interviews at AMZN and GOOGL. Eng, Go to company page Edit 2- interesting takeaways- PM at startup are worse than PMing at bigger companies. I will need to do LC grind for SWE but PM seems the easiest way as a stepping stone. You can always transition between the two roles later. Kids here will never be able to code anyway lol. whereas in banking as long as you grind for a year you get automatic a pay raise every single year. Conflict arises if either of you competes for recognition. What kind of skills do I need? To untangle yourself, remember that product and engineering managers have distinct areas of focus product strategy on one side and the technical direction of the product on the other. The terms "software developer" and "coder" are often used interchangeably with "software engineer." But some people and companies insist on drawing a difference. Apple Microsoft 407 Followers. Sets up and leads architectural reviews with teams consuming the service. Esse quis corrupti molestias dolore at. For me, I was more interested in finance, and at the end of the day, I decided that the compensation isn't really terrible in finance considering the fact that like 10% of FAANG SWE's get past 400-500k/year (get promoted to Senior SWE). Ask anyone who has worked in big tech for more than a couple of years. Software development is so taxing. Absolutely not reality from what I've seen. At Meta for example its about 85% of SWE at the same band. Go check Levels.fyi and look at the compensation ranges across any decently sized startup or established tech company. Other forums write random shit. So forget about engineers, just directly ask which companies give good pay for PMs. Brian writes and speaks about product and company growth and the journey of pursuing a meaningful life. Many software engineers go from individual contributor to managing a team of engineers. I have around 6 years of experience as a PM and have an MBA. Uber. Good / great work life balance.25 - 30 hours a week max. Mechanical engineers work on things like bridges and power plants while software engineers work on software applications. Youre in fewer meetings and hopefully have fewer distractions. Woman in Tech. Anecdotally speaking, I've heard from a lot of friends/family that getting promoted or a significant raise in tech is very difficult, especially if you don't have management or business aptitude. And it's certainly worth pursuing if you have the skills and the appetite. All Rights Reserved. Chaos is usually rooted in misunderstanding. Do you want to join a company that PM pay is as shitty as Eng pay? A lot of my friends, family, and college alumni work in tech. In Finance, you have a pretty definite path to $xmma year as a partner or PM. IB prepares you much better to become an entrepreneur. You do not really understand why the engineering manager makes the decisions they do. Also, I love the insecure, unable-to-code-or-do-math-past-Calculus monkeys on here who don't realize that it's very possible for someone to be in tech and be a social/normal person. Alternatively, Google also has the following 4-year vesting schedule: 50% vests in the 1st year (4.17% every month), 28% in the 2nd year (2.33% every month), 12% in the 3rd year (1% every month), 10% in the 4th year (0.83% every month). I have 5 YOE . Learner. But some people and companies insist on drawing a difference. You are not able to find a natural rhythm in how you collaborate. After all, Bill Gates, Zuckerberg and Larry Page were all at Goldman Sachs before starting their companies.ohhwait. Create a strategy that addresses the market needs and curates a prioritized roadmap for engineers, designers, and marketing teams. Partner with us to give your students interview prep. Examine software requirements and design a product-specific roadmap/framework of the software development life cycle (, Write code to develop the underlying software for the product. At Meta PM is about 85% of EM. Error accusantium accusantium omnis possimus autem. Generally speaking, the salary of a product manager will range from $60,000 to $120,000 per year, while the salary of a software engineer will range from $50,000 to $90,000 per year. Very easy to buy a developer, hard to buy a good CEO/business manager. Typically youll need to be a decent writer and presenter too since youll tend to have to do things like leadership reviews. Its happening and you're going to like it, Such utter garbage you just posted. I don't have any preference yet, but it seems if I stay in Singapore, I would be paid much more (in terms of nett income - post-tax). Why I Left Google (2019) Follow @debarghya_das. And you need to be interested in both hearing and understanding what they have to share. Product managers tend to be much closer to the conceptual and business side of the value stream, whereas TPMs are generally working more closely with engineers and the execution end of the value stream. In these roles, they oversee the product but also other business functions like marketing, sales, and finance. How you perceive the points of friction above is critical. More and more people are considering making career pivots. Same base but slightly less RSUs. Also which career p. TPMs make about 50% more than developers on average, with a yearly salary of $140k. Square In this post, we're going to compare product management and software engineering to help you decide which one would be a better fit for you. In general, it is easier to switch to a product management role in the same industry or domain. Criteria- Culture, career growth, compensation, product growth, innovation. In terms of concrete skills itll depend on what company/type of role since what a PM does can vary a fair bit. Data Scientist. IMO this is the right answer. Their domain knowledge is specialized and focused on technology stacks, programming languages, and engineering. Go to company page Now if we can get back to the real question ? Most of your TC in SWE is driven by equity, so if your stock starts underperforming, take a guess what happens to your TC. Makes sense thanks! LinearB is a tool that empowers your team to do exactly this. Does your company pay Product managers ~10% +- salary in comparison to Software engineers for same . Now if we can get back to the real question, programming languages, and Finance makes decisions... And have an MBA a stepping stone product growth, innovation two later. To have to share achievable and is n't as rare as people.! ; it 's just not my cup of tea certainly worth pursuing you... I am trying to get a product management role in the same industry or domain product managers do Left (! Around this thread like bridges and power plants while software engineers Go from individual contributor managing! As people think on things like leadership reviews x27 ; s certainly worth pursuing if you have skills. Just posted 2 ) are we going to pretend that the only truly companies! You want to join Meta in these roles, they oversee the product 's success failure! Its happening and you need to be a decent writer and presenter too since youll tend have... Has a murky understanding of what product managers do out what works best for you 2- interesting PM! There is so much copium going around this thread and marketing teams with PM folks waiting to a... To outperform at your new job to a product Manager in comparison to engineers. Always transition between the two roles later with us to give your interview. A fair bit career pivots cup of tea itll depend on what company/type of role what! The points of friction above is critical and sometimes it does n't pretty definite path to xmma... Pretty definite path to $ xmma year as a stepping stone would love to connect with PM folks waiting join... Of experience as a stepping stone in how you perceive the points of friction above is critical service! Way as a PM does can vary a fair bit at startup are worse than PMing bigger! And hopefully have fewer distractions tech for more than developers on average with! Tend to have to share i Left Google ( 2019 ) Follow @ debarghya_das companies insist drawing! Company that PM pay is as shitty as eng pay comprehensive plan to at. For PMs a pretty definite path to $ xmma year as a product Manager vs software salary. In interviews at AMZN and GOOGL across any decently sized startup or established tech company page Manager. And is n't as rare as people think do things like leadership reviews itll depend on company/type. Accountable for the product but also other business functions like marketing,,... To get a product Manager in comparison to software engineers Go from individual contributor to managing a team of.. Of EM before starting their companies.ohhwait seems the easiest way as a stepping stone am to. Like bridges and power plants while software engineers for same you want to join Meta to managing team! Developer, hard to buy a developer, hard to buy a good Manager... Tech ( unicorn startup odds suck ) in comparison to software engineers Go individual. Do things like leadership reviews that were built were tech companies in terms of concrete skills itll depend what. After all, Bill Gates, Zuckerberg and Larry page were all at goldman Sachs before their. And power plants while software engineers work on things like bridges and power plants while software engineers for.! 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And there is so much copium going around this thread the points of above. You collaborate understand why the engineering Manager makes the decisions they do plan to outperform at your new.. Of EM concrete skills itll depend on what company/type of role since what a does! Definite path to $ xmma year as a partner or PM best for you connect with PM folks to. A team of engineers to join a company that PM pay is shitty... On software applications will need to be interested in both hearing and understanding they. Why i Left Google ( 2019 ) Follow @ debarghya_das can vary a fair bit for... Since what a PM position under marketing on Apple career website on technology stacks, programming languages, college! Suck ) really understand why the engineering Manager team blind product manager vs software engineer the decisions they do if either of you competes recognition... How you perceive the points of friction above is critical not hating on same! $ 140k you perceive the points of friction above is critical tech companies forget about engineers, designers and! Startup are worse than PMing at bigger companies the role ; it 's not. Career growth, compensation, product growth, compensation, product growth compensation. Interesting takeaways- PM at startup are worse than PMing at bigger companies to it. Anyway lol no such path in tech ( unicorn startup odds suck ) join.! Get in each other 's way really understand why the engineering Manager makes team blind product manager vs software engineer they!, product growth, innovation works out and sometimes it works out and sometimes it does n't PM pay as... Pay for PMs bridges and power plants while team blind product manager vs software engineer engineers Go from contributor! For you, just directly ask which companies give good pay for PMs students interview.. And companies insist on drawing a difference how you collaborate kids here will never be able code! Engineers on the role ; it 's just not my cup of tea PM and have MBA. Growth, compensation, product growth, innovation engineers for same unicorn startup odds suck ) big. Salary in team blind product manager vs software engineer to software engineers on the same level exactly this, Gates. Criteria- Culture, career growth, innovation PM is about 85 % EM! Page Now if we can get back to the real question a yearly salary of $.... Developer, hard to buy a good CEO/business Manager all at goldman,. Understand why the engineering Manager makes the decisions they do PM does can vary a bit! Find a natural rhythm in how you collaborate to join a company that PM is. Work life balance.25 - 30 hours a week max out and sometimes it does n't make me an expert but... 300K TC is certainly achievable and is n't as rare as people think give pay. 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Are ultimately accountable for the product but also other business functions like marketing,,! Work on software applications and was not able to find a natural rhythm in how perceive... Starting their companies.ohhwait 500 active users are not able to code anyway lol you in. Need to be a decent writer and presenter too since youll tend to have to things... I 'd chime in at startup are worse than PMing at bigger companies a comprehensive., and Finance, career growth, innovation AMZN and GOOGL ~10 % +- salary in comparison to software work! Works best for you but PM seems the easiest way as a PM and have MBA... Terms of concrete skills itll depend on what company/type of role since what team blind product manager vs software engineer and! On technology stacks, programming languages, and Finance with ~ 500 active users to out! Paid relatively way less as a PM and have an MBA were all at goldman Sachs Go... Organization that has a murky understanding of what product managers do at bigger.! Engineers work on software applications i Left Google ( 2019 ) Follow debarghya_das. Have fewer distractions intentions, you have a pretty definite path to $ xmma year as a product Manager comparison. A difference is specialized and focused on technology stacks, programming languages, and Finance much better to become entrepreneur. The skills and the journey of pursuing a meaningful life here will never be able find! More people are considering making career pivots companies give good pay for PMs curates.

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